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I keep hearing about the Golden Age of Haynes and I have played some really nice HANDMADE french Haynes flutes from that era. (late 50s to early 70s) BUT What about the closed hole, COMMERCIAL model flute?
What are the good serial number ranges for those? Are they the same Golden Era as the Handmade or do they have their own, different era.
Haynes COMMERCIAL experts, let me hear from you. I'm assuming that it would be.#20, xxx. Closed hole low C. This is the ' era' you mean yes? I think it was also called the ' bread and butter flute'.
Artie Pinkus told me that in the 70's on 48th St. Thats what myHaynes is, and it is an amazing flute. Sounds dark and strong. That said, FWIW, I've been playing a Burkhart-Phelan for about 4 months and am loving it madly. My flute teacher for over 25 years Harold Jones has one and that kinda did it for me. ( Harold taught Dolphy, Yusef and hundreds of NY guys ) I never played a better flute, BAR NONE. Haynes is Haynes for sure but this fits where my mind set is in this era.
Theres a great Haynes @ Robertos, open hole 6 diguit and smokin'. 5K or so- and a lil' leaky. Great Haynes. Wait, so could somebody define what the Haynes 'commerical' model is exactly?
I've gathered that this is a closed hole, offset G, low C horn that most of you rave about. Is that the actual brand name? Or a nickname? Are they no longer being made? What material are they made out of? Do they all have the same headjoint? I'm getting much closer to thinking this (or something similar) might be what i'm looking for.
Weissman has a boatload of these very flutes. If you live close to NYC, you should visit his shop. Besides having a flute inventory to die for, Jeff Weissman is a trip! Great flute selection! Here is just his I know it's not what you're looking for and certianly not in the price range, but last time I was there, I played the last flute on his list, serial 52151 and it was the flute. I believe it was on the order of 10,000 plus dollars, so I had to pass. I don't know if this is considered a 'golden' age commercial Haynes (may be a little early) but I play a 10,000 serial number Commercial model (1929).
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I believe this was during the time that Powell worked for the Haynes company. It took me a while to really get comfortable playing it up to pitch, but I love it.
I've fooled a lot of people into thinking I was playing a more expensive/modern flute. I've gotten used to the added resistance so when I tried a friends 'golden era' Powell it felt light and wimpy in comparison. Though I'm sure when I steal it from him and play it for awhile, I'll get used to it.
The question came up about the commercial vs handmade closed hole Haynes. I've had two commercial models, still have one, and I also have a thin-wall,.014, handmade model at this time. I can say that the actions of the two depend much more on the tech setting them up than it does on the flutes. They both handle very well.
They both have exactly the same intonation, tuning, across the scale, they have the exact same keyhole alignments. They are very good and are known for being in tune. I can't really say which is in my hand because one plays differently from the other, but the handmade feels a bit smaller or lighter.
However, there are other, substantial differences. The handmade looks like just that - a jewelry-like, precise, polished, exactly hand fitted, etc. It is finished at a very high level. The handmade headjoint has a much better cut. But, the handmade also is a bit newer, 1965, 34xxx versus the commercial, 1961, 32xxx. However, I don't think this matters very much, because the handmade headjoint clearly received some extra attention, including scribing alignment, 'witness', marks on the headjoint and the barrel of the flute. The headjoint on the handmade is more aggressive, with a stronger and more flexible sound and the lower register is clearly better.
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Perhaps, a commercial model headjoint could be recut? I decided to buy a high-end headjoint for mine. The handmade does not have adjustment screws on it, which the commercial model has. I don't know if you've adjusted one, but turning a screw (with the correct tool) feels better to me than bending the key.
I've not seen a screw move around, so I can't say that it is more durable. I'm only keeping the commercial model over the handmade because I also have several other headjoints for it (sized.018) that won't fit the handmade. I have wooden headjoints from Drelinger and Abell and from an 1850's german flute. For me the handmade is more desirable, much more, actually. But, I don't want to give up all the other stuff that only fit the bigger barrel. Here's a website I put together on the handmade flute: Dave Harris.
Great thread, btw I recently bought a 50s commercial, a few weeks ago. (btw, they are a bargain these days, at $1600 - $2000 or so) My search included visiting Jeff Wiessman and Wiessman Music, where I tried 6 or 7 of them. (I ended up getting one from the Flute Center of NY) The guy that posted above about the differences in keywork, etc., neglected to mention the big reason people buy these, SOUND.
The commercial sound is a little thicker, a tad darker & perhaps spread (MOST of them) than the HM model. I was surprised in the variation of all the ones I played, esp. In headjoints. The shape of the holes all seemed different. The one I bought ended up sounding a little more clearer, direct & 'handmade' sounding than the others, not sure why this one was like that. The headjoint had a little number '7' under the Haynes logo. I was told that meant it was made on Mandrel Number 7, which I was told, was one of the mandrels they were experimenting with back then.
I like the headjoint, but already owned a newer, nice, handmade Haynes hj with a gold riser that I used on my old flute. This really makes a HUGE difference in sound. I REALLY love this flute together w/the new headjoint. I've found huge differences in headjoints. I recently decided to upgrade from my commercial model Haynes (and closed hole handmade Haynes). I tried out headjoints for both, the commercial model is.018 and takes anything (with a little teflon tape) and the handmade is.014, for which it was hard to find headjoints.
I tried out a custom Haynes, Gooseman Butterfly, Nagahara, Dana Sheridan, Muramatsu and LaFin. In end, the custom Haynes sounded a lot like the other Haynes, nice, and definitely better, but not something to set the world on fire; the Gooseman was too bright, tinny, for me; the Nagahara sounded great and responded very quickly, but I couldn't make it play decently in tune; the Sheridan sounded good, but I also couldn't play it in tune. The Muramatsu was very nice and fit the handmade Haynes, it played well in tune and had a great sound.
But, the LaFin was best. The sound was very uniform, very flexible colors, strong low end, easy to play soft and loud. It sounded as good or better than the Muramatsu. But, the real deal-maker was that it plays in tune better than anything else I've played. I can play from low C to highest C and stay in tune! And, without having to think too hard about it. The comment was made here or in another post, that players instinctively adjust pitch.
True, but where that is most difficult is long jumps. In long jumps there is a much greater chance that you are going to blow the new note out of tune. I find that the LaFin headjoint makes jumps easily that have always been problems in the past.
So, my recommendation is to pick up a used closed-hole Haynes and then top it off with a high-end headjoint.
Haynes Flute Pro Shop takes great pride in selling the very best examples of the art of flute making. Therefore, FPS will not devalue any instrument in the inventory, nor will become involved in price wars. In this way, FPS customers will always know the real price of the instruments.
Haynes Company is deeply dedicated to the highest level of craftsmanship. Here, flutemakers utilize old world skills in combination with forward thinking ideals to produce the most revered flutes in the world. Historically, Haynes has developed crafting techniques and methods that have been adopted as the paradigm in the flutemaking industry. When you play a Haynes flute, you know that you are playing a flute with a history of more than 125 years of mastery in flutemaking behind it.
Haynes flutes are known the world over for “that sound.” Flutists enjoy the rich, full, colorful, even scaled timbre over a full range of dynamics that is only Haynes. This unique tone has always had beauty of sound at its core, yet it allows for current trends to be a part of the tonal range. Here at FPS, we understand “that” sound, and find that many of our clients find their voice in a Haynes flute. Haynes also has a fine instrument to suit your needs and budget.
The Q Series provides many of the professional options found in top priced flutes for much more reasonable pricing. Very popular at FPS is the Haynes Q2 flute with gold fusion on the outside is a very popular model for college music majors, and adults coming back to the flute later in life. The Handmade flutes represent everything we here at FPS strive to bring to our customers: unsurpassed commitment to quality.
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